how much?

[tort71]

Joe:

There is no doubt that they both contain thiamine, but thiamine is destroyed when you heat it or boil it in this case.

[Joe H]

Did you go to the USDA database?

thiamin is present in cooked chicken and shrimp

[tort71]

Did you go to the USDA database?

thiamin is present in cooked chicken and shrimp

If you consider that present .  Cooked Chicken and shrimp have .03 and .04mg respectively of thiamine.  Nonfat yogurt has  0.048mg of thiamine.  I just don't see how animal protein is essential to prevent paralysis if they can get their thiamine from greens such as spinach or turnip greens which both have .07mg, almost double that of cooked chicken or shrimp.  Then dandelion of course has  0.190mg of thiamine.  It just isn't adding up for me, but thanks for that site I will definitely bookmark it and use it often .

[Joe H]

reread what I wrote

its the quantity and quality of protein.  It also seems that they need the extra B vitamins...in particular thiamin, thats present in animal matter

Notice that first part

its the quantity and quality of protein. 

In particular the proper amounts of amino acids. This is hard for omnivores to get without a source of muscle meat. Whether its bugs of chicken.

also look at the second part of the quote

It also seems that they need the extra B vitamins...in particular thiamin, thats present in animal matter

note in particular I said "animal matter" I didn't say feed chicken and shrimp for the thiamin. But both are high quality protein. I have had a few redfoots that were given to me because of hind leg paralysis that recovered in a week...fed them chicken and shrimp

[tort71]

Sorry, I'm not purposely trying to give you a hard time .  I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of this.  I understand what you are saying now.

[Joe H]

no problem...I'm not always clear on what I mean 

[tort71]

no problem...I'm not always clear on what I mean 

I'm just glad you did say something.  Up until I read this thread I thought it was OK they didn't eat protein as long as they got enough UVB and calcium.  I would have hate to seen what could have happened...

[tort71]

Joe:

Just to push the envelope..sort to speak.. I was just curious if you knew why Mediterranean tortoises aren't effected by hind leg paralysis like RF and if Mediterranean's can develop it?   

[Joe H]

They evolved on a much different diet

[Irwin4530]

I am so happy that both of you had this conversation!!
NOT ONLY were you both respectfull about the whoe exchange, but you answered A LOT of questions for me
and got me thinking very differently about how i feed my redfoots.

thank you